Donald Horner

January 4, 2021

pls add our community’s voice to the concern of military aircraft doing training flight directly over our home at 11pm at night for several hours-beginnning at 10am and off and on for several day past 11pm at night. Below is the response. We sent them photo’s.

Begin forwarded message:

From: “Silva, Adriana J (AJ) MAJ USARMY 25 ID (USA)”
Date: January 4, 2021 at 11:03:27 AM HST
To: DonaldgHorner
Cc: “Duvall, Adam G LTC USARMY 25 ID (USA)” , “Sampsel, Johnathon W (John) MAJ USARMY 25 ID (USA)”
Subject: RE: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Noise Complaint (UNCLASSIFIED)



The training area you are referring to is for terrain flight use in support of ground force exercises.  The two blackhawks flying oval patterns were supporting a ground unit conducting training. Please note aircraft are still authorized to fly outside of this area at prescribed altitudes.

For your situational awareness the entry points are used under for night operations for the ease of separating aircraft  within the terrain flight training area.  Aircraft can enter the terrain flight training area from any point during daylight operations. 

With regards to Marine Osprey noise complaints please call 808-257-8876 or 808-257-8832.

I hope to have answered all your questions. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.


G3 Aviation Officer

25th Infantry Division
Schofield Barracks, HI 96857

Office: 808-655-4816

From: DonaldgHorner
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 9:15 PM
To: Silva, Adriana J (AJ) MAJ USARMY 25 ID (USA)
Cc: Duvall, Adam G LTC USARMY 25 ID (USA); Sampsel, Johnathon W (John) MAJ USARMY 25 ID (USA) ; Bill Quinlan
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: Noise Complaint (UNCLASSIFIED)
Importance: High

Attached is a example of military aircraft using the entry point over residential homes well West of Vlezyland. This Osprey is directly over the Sunset Beach community west of Sunset Beach Colony subdivision. This specific time was 5:15pm Dec 17.

> On Dec 16, 2020, at 3:20 PM, DonaldgHorner wrote:
> Major-our community very much appreciates your response.
> As I write this, two Army Blackhawk helicopters have been consistently flying directly over our North Shore neighborhoods in an oval pattern (well away from the training areas) for the past two days. They have been doing this oval flight pattern west and east of Sunset Beach. The same two aircraft are consistent in the pattern literally day and night (10am-past 10:30pm). Yesterday, it included two even louder Marine Ospreys.
> Is this not well West of the entry point you spoke about? And, of course is not transit to the training site. I have lived in my home for 25+ years and this is a new occurrence.
> We fully appreciate the critical requirement to do training. (I served in Vietnam). What we do not understand is why the training has moved over our homes consistently day and late into the night.
> Also, in terms of the entry point; you stated “Velzyland Beach is just west of an entry point into a training area,  which is outside a designated noise sensitive area”.  Understood.
> Our complaint issue is many of the pilots are not following those guideline.  They are choosing to turn from makai to mauka well west of V-Land much closer to Sunset and instead fly over populated homes vs flying over the less populated areas East of Velzyland.
> Mahalo nui loa-for your consideration of our homes and families. Be safe. 
>> On Dec 3, 2020, at 3:28 PM, Silva, Adriana J (AJ) MAJ USARMY 25 ID (USA) wrote:
>> Sir,
>> I wanted to reach out to you with regards to the noise complaint that you filed on 24NOV20.
>> U.S. Army aircraft operating in this area (City) strive to avoid flight over large built up areas to reduce the effects of rotary wing noise.  I am sorry that their operations were disruptive to you.  As members of the community it is important to us, that we fly both safe and neighborly in support of the defense of our great nation. Honolulu Control Facility (HCF) reduces the risk of mid-air collisions by assigning aircraft operating altitudes that separate them from other traffic. These assigned altitudes are always above the Minimum Safe Altitude specified by Federal Aviation Regulation 91.119.
>> As I’m sure you know Velzyland Beach is just west of an entry point into a training area,  which is outside a designated noise sensitive area.  The required flight altitude for that particular area is 1000′ and above ground level. The flight of two Blackhawk helicopters that you  photographed appear to be at an altitude of 2000′, in compliance with the published flight rules.
>> Again, I am sorry to hear that aviation operations have been disruptive to you.
>> If there are any future feel free to contact the noise complaint hotline at 808-656-3487.
>> v/r
>> MAJ, AV
>> G3 Aviation Officer
>> 25th Infantry Division
>> Schofield Barracks, HI 96857
>> Office: 808-655-4816

Sonya Niess

January 16, 2021

Dear HANSTF Committee members,
I am a Maui resident writing to you about the commercial airline traffic noise that has continually disrupted the peace and quiet of our rural town of Haiku since the airline route changed back in the Summer of 2019. We have worked with our local council members and Community Association on this issue and need your assistance in influencing the FAA to change the route so that it does not fly directly over our community. Solutions have been proposed, we are not asking for major overhaul or redirection. We are merely asking them to consider the community below and to move the route by 1-2 miles over open & uninhabited lands. Thank you for reading this letter and we hope you hear our plea & act.

Bob – For the HICoP Board

January 21, 2021



Much of the discussion at the HANSTF January 19, 2021 meeting was regarding the rescinding of HATCPM and the 1500AGL requirement and a legal way to deviate from the 1500AGL because of the 500′ below cloud FAA Rule.

HATCPM has been in force since 2008 with the 1500AGL rule yet the tour copter noise complaints proliferated.

HICoP in cooperation with Blue Hawaiian in 2015 carried out a demonstration with a copter operating between 1000AGL to 2000AGL plus where the copter was actually entering the clouds, no required 500′ minimum separation, and the noise level at all AGL would precipitate noise complaints.  From this we learned that AGL was not a solution to the tour copter noise issue.

The Overflights Act of 1987 required the FAA/NPS to provide a minimum AGL tour aircraft could operate over National Parks without IOA.  It took 7 years for the agencies to research and publish that number, 5000AGL.

Since AGL less than 5000AGL does not address the tour copter noise issue the flight path/tour route becomes the vector to address tour copter noise.  If the pilot sees rooftops below inside the copter noise footprint a potential noise complaint is created.

No noise hotline is needed, just the creation of tour routes that keep the noise footprint away from occupied properties/our homes and businesses.  FAA ATC in controlled airspace must also provide approach and takeoff  flight paths that do not allow the tour copter noise footprint to enter occupied properties. 

HICoP is ready, willing and able to coordinate with the tour copter operators to establish such “fly neighborly routes”.  HICoP first met with the tour copter operators on Hawaii Island in 2015.  

Casey Riemer, HHA, remarked why the current processes are taking place, because of complaints to elected office holders who want the noise complaints to go away.  Wouldn’t it be better to voluntarily/cooperatively solve the issue rather than be subject to mandates that may not be the best solution for any of the parties involved?  HICoP volunteers to participate.


1.  Alex Tamoria, HDOTA,

a.  You mentioned the hiring of a consultant, what is the specific purpose of the consultant and what result is expected from the consultant over what period of time?

b.  You mentioned a future meeting schedule, what is that schedule?

c.  HDOTA has been aware of the tour copter noise issue for years, HDOTA has a aircraft noise complaint line, 1-888-697-7813. Furthermore, HICoP met with HDOTA Ross HIgashi August 9, 2016 and described in detail to him the negative noise impacts from tour copters, Ross Higashi co-sponsored and was in attendance at the April 16, 2018 Nani Mau standing room only public hearing where he heard the public describe in detail the impacts of tour copter noise and how it negatively impacts their lives.  When will HDOTA take meaningful action to provide relief for the people on the ground in Hawaii? 

  “(888) 697-7813 Information on Filing a Noise Complaint

Therefore, any aircraft noise complaints are handled by the State of HawaiiDepartment of Transportation, Airports Division. You must call the Hotline number to make a formal complaintHotline Number: (888) 697-7813 Apr 9, 2020,”

2.  Cade Clark, HAI, You mentioned many times resources for the public on the HAI website.  Could you provide links to these specific items you are referring to?

3. Vicki Ward, NPS, You mentioned that ATMPs for Hawaii Volcanoes and Haleakala National Parks were more “complicated”.  Could you explain why in view of the fact that ATMP hearings for both Parks were held in 2011 and those ATMPs were about to be implemented?

4.  Melissa Pavlicek, HANSTF,

a.  List of all the participants and their sponsors? 

b.  Details of Agenda items 5 and 6?

5.  Marcus Roulet, FAA, A published time line for the development of the HATCPM?

6.  Casey Riemer, HHA,  Mahalo for clarifying ADS-B/Flightaware.  HICoP suspected that certain tour copter operators were requesting Flightaware to hide their N numbers which you confirmed for us.  Non-HHA member Blue Hawaiian has always had their ADS-B identity N numbers available on Flightaware whereas HHA member Paradise N numbers were not and Safari never has seemed to have any ADS-B available.

a. You mentioned all HHA members have committed to have ADS-B installed and on and will not block it on Flightaware.  HICoP Mahalos you, HHA and the members for providing that transparency.  Could you let HICoP know when this will all be completed so we can pass the word and let the community know that the tour copter operators are cooperating on this transparency issue?

b.  Since it is apparent that the 1500AGL over occupied properties does not preclude complaints precipitated by the tour copter noise would the HHA members be willing to voluntarily  ( Voluntarily may be better than dictated by others. ) discuss tour routes/flight paths that would eliminate the noise footprint from entering occupied properties?

7.  Raquel Girvin, FAA Western-Pacific Regional Administrator, Since you have heard extensive complaints at the 5 HANSTF meetings you have attended including this one, and your office has conducted numerous public hearings in Hawaii for the express purpose of hearing from the public about tour copter noise impacts, 2 of those previous public hearings were held on March 30 2017 and April 16, 2018, when your office heard from standing room only members of the public how unbearable the tour copter noise impacted their lives.

The FAA responded to similar copter noise complaints on Long Island, NY, where the impact was a lot less than in Hawaii, less operations and summer season only and implemented FAA Rule 14 CFR Part 93 for the specific purpose to stop copter noise from entering communities, occupied properties, homes.

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Federal Aviation Administration 14 CFR Part 93  The purpose of this rule is to protect and enhance public welfare by maximizing utilization of the existing route flown by helicopter traffic one mile off the north shore of Long Island and thereby reducing helicopter overflights and attendant noise disturbance over nearby communities.

When will you,  your office, provide the same level of protection for people on the ground in Hawaii as they do for the people on the ground on Long Island? 



For the HICoP Board

Deb Laeha

January 26, 2021

I live in Maunawili on Oahu. Pre-Covid, the volume of tour helicopters over Maunawili/Olomana (based on data from the FlightRadar24 app) had reached a tipping point averaging one overhead every 4 to 5 minutes from @ 7 am to 6 pm—EVERY SINGLE DAY! Because we live in a valley, the noise from these helicopters is particularly loud because it reverberates off of the mountains.

These tour helicopters fly under Visual Flight Rules (VFR) and are not equipped with the instrumentation needed to fly under cloudy conditions. Despite this, tour operators fly over Windward Communities even in rainy, cloudy conditions when the Koʻolau Mountains are completely fogged in. This creates incredibly unsafe conditions as was evidenced by the tragic helicopter accident that occurred on April 29, 2019, when a tour helicopter pilot became disoriented during overcast conditions and crashed in the middle of Kailua Townʻs main street, killing 3, but miraculously sparing the lives of those on the ground. Because tour helicopters in Hawaii are only capable of operating under VFR, it is especially dangerous to those of us living in Windward Communities where weather and wind conditions, especially near the mountains, are unpredictable (which tour operators have openly acknowledged).

The tour helicopter industry has been allowed to operate virtually unregulated in the Islands for decades. These helicopters fly whenever, wherever they want with the only requirement to “fly neighborly” and “safely”, at an altitude of 1,500 ft or higher. This leaves things WIDE OPEN to interpretation and has produced a wild-wild west mentality in our skies.

I attended the recent HANSTF meeting held on 1/19/21 and was extremely disconcerted to hear that the helicopter tour industry will now be given even more autonomy to manage/monitor themselves as well as to deviate from the 1.500 ft requirement. I was hoping that HANSTF would represent the COMMUNITY and not be just another talking head for the helicopter tour industry.

For the health, safety, and well-being of our communities, something needs to be done to control the volumes and routes of tour helicopters. We kamaaina should be valued over the tourist buck.

Mary Lock

February 2, 2021


Thank you for your work on this important task force. I am a resident of Haiku and would like to amplify other messages you may have already received regarding the flight path changes at the Kahului airport that have resulted in planes flying over our community waking me up as early as 3:28 am and as late as near 11 pm. If you are able to help in any way, advise on how we can raise the issue with the appropriate organization, or provide a link where we can get status or additional information on the alteration of flight paths, our neighborhood would greatly appreciate it. I find it difficult to navigate the system in place as there are a number of agencies involved and my previous attempts at contact have been futile.


Bob – For the HICoP Board

April 21, 2021


Please post for all HANSTF to see and for reference for future meetings.

This is a screenshot provided today.

The N number is not displayed, probably blocked, regarding ADS-B HANSTF discussions/presentations at recent meetings.

The other point the provider relays is that the copter is operating offshore north of Hilo and then comes overland transiting over a very developed residential area.  This is what noise complaints are all about.

So how to cease noise complaints, DO NOT TRANSIT OVER OCCUPIED PROERTIES, SIMPLE, stay offshore.

This is a follow-up to the April 20, 2021 HANSTF meeting where ADS-B was on the agenda for the multiple time and where HANSTF Goal “Address noise concerns” was again not addressed with any meaningful action, which is the case since the implementation of HANSTF January 2020. 



For the HICoP Board

Totally unnecessary flyover while writing this email.

Bob – For the HICoP Board

April 21, 2021


If the Goal of the Task Force is “Address noise concerns pertaining to the Hawaii air tour industry” it has been a failure to date since no meaningful action has been taken and there is non on the horizon.

The co-chairs were again absent from the meeting so agenda item 4 going back to the January 21, 2021 HANSTF meeting regarding a study consultant remains unexplained.

Agenda item 6.a. by the FAA did not provide any reference to how the FAA will address “noise”.

Hawaii is the most tour copter impacted State in the Nation yet we have had no meaningful action to address the Hawaii tour industry noise provided by the HANSTF Task Force Members.

So another 3 months to the next quarterly meeting and another 3 months of totally unnecessary tour copter noise nuisance pollution torture for the people of Hawaii.

HICoP suggests that the next meeting, 3 months away, be exclusively dedicated to the common knowledge existing noise dilemma that is created by the tour copters transiting over occupied properties and how this noise torture can be eliminated forthwith.



For the HICoP Board

Diane Popov

May 24, 2021

My terminally ill husband and I live in Ewa Beach and lately passenger planes have been flying over our house every ten to fifteen minutes in the evenings when we look to sit quietly on our back patio. We are backed up to the Hawaii Prince Golf Course. Why has the air traffic increased over the residential area and earlier than in the past also???????

Bob – For the HICoP Board

May 25, 2021


Another complaint from an impacted.

When will HANSTF address the ongoing impacts raised in this email and also those received in the previous public hearings by HANSTF in September/December 2020?



For the HICoP Board

From: “CT Reatherford”
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 5:14:49 PM
Subject: You’ve been contacted by CT Reatherford

You have been contacted by CT Reatherford

Name: CT Reatherford

I would like to stop the half dozen to dozen daily flyovers of my propert